Transcript
PSW Live Chat with David Scheirman
Director, Tour Sound Marketing, JBL

May 7th, 2001
Moderated by Dave Dermont, “Another Dave”

Moderator: Good evening, and welcome to our chat with David Scheirman!

David Scheirman: Thanks, David, glad to be here.

Moderator: This is the third in our series of chats with guys named Dave.

David Scheirman: Don't forget "Another Dave"... :-)

Moderator: David, could you start with some background on how you got into
this business?

David Scheirman: There are lots of stories...all true...but the short
version is, I was throwing papers on my route in Oklahoma City and heard a
band practicing. They didn't have a bass player, and I noticed the drummer
was in my math class at junior high. Plus, since my Mom had a station wagon,
I had to haul the singer's Shure Vocalmaster once they let me into the band
(and I got my drivers' license... :-)

The transition from musician to "sound guy" is one that many of us have
made, I suspect. Having been a musician - and then learning basic audio -
was a good platform to build on.

Tucci: The early days of reinforcement fascinate me. This industry is not
very old, barely mature in real business parlance. I'm curious as to how
things were done early on.

David Scheirman: Early on, depends on how early! I saw The Who play on top
of a community swimming pool at a theme park, using Fender guitar cabinets
for the PA. Vanilla Fudge toured with Bruce speaker columns. The Beach Boys
used Sunn Studio PA speakers (JBL loaded) on tripods.

Probably one of the biggest innovations was when larger horn-loaded gear
(like RCA cinema bins) were used to get better bass response. Iron Butterfly
hauled Altec multicells to the U.K. and stimulated a lot of development in
horn loaded systems from folks like Stephen Court and Dave Martin

Tucci: I mean the early rigging experiments, the advent of MSI's proprietary
gear, as well as Northwest and Clair.

David Scheirman: OK - early hanging systems were funny (and awkward) by
today's standards. Some firms built huge, flat heavy steel platforms and
loaded bins & horns on top, then hoisted them up. It all started to come
together when CM Lodestar agreed to offer a standard inverted chain motor
hoist in their product line. That let us all start pulling loads up from
pre-hung points. That was around 1973-75.

Tucci: Could you tell us some of the artists you worked for and for how
long. Was there a natural progression of artists or all to chance?

David Scheirman: Artists worked for...well, I began with R&B/gospel. Was
working with Andrae Crouch and the Disciples in the mid 70's when they were
awarded "Best Gospel Group" by Billboard magazine.

With Andrae, we went from a Cerwin Vega speakers-on-sticks thing under the
Silver Eagle bus, to renting major regional rigs for sports arenas,
practically overnight. Then, Jim Ford (Ford Audio, Oklahoma City) built us
an innovative road package rig with Crown DC 150's and 300's, a Tascam mixer
and JBL-loaded direct radiating cabs. Other artists early on...Gladys
Knight & the Pips, The Spinners, The Temps, Al Green...(circa 1975-77).

I worked with Carlo Sound (Nashville) which at the time was doing nationwide
touring. That got me involved with a number of interesting rock acts like
the Ozark Mtn. Daredevils...Firefall...New Riders of the Purple Sage...etc.

In the mid-70's, being able to get exposure 'on tour' with leading
soundmixers like Buford Jones (David Bowie tour, '76) and John Logan
(Jackson Browne tour, '75) and Jack Maxson of Showco (Paul McCartney, '76)
was really good training. I still enjoyed R&B, though...horn sections are
great fun to mix.

Tours with folks like Grover Washington, Ashford & Simpson and Luther
Vandross get my 'fix' for that. From 1979-84, I had great fun touring with
artists like George Benson, Al Jarreau, Manhattan Transfer, Harry Chapin,
and other pop and jazz acts, around the globe. 1981-95 also included some
more rock-oriented stuff (Nightranger, Shooting Star, Glenn Frey, ELO) along
with some really interesting work with classical and symphonic organizations
like the NY Philharmonic, the Metropolitan Opera, the Pacific Symphony, and
such.

Concert tours with featured female vocalists like Sheena Easton, Linda
Ronstadt...those were some of my favorite projects. Stadium shows with Jimmy
Buffett were a also lot of fun.

But I must admit, I have nowhere near the resume and experience as "the Old
Soundman". But then he is just a couch potato with a house gig from what I
hear, these days...

The Old Soundman: When's the last time you mixed a show for less than a
thousand people, superstar?

David Scheirman: Last time I mixed a show for less than a thousand? Well...I
just volunteered at a local church event and helped the kids make sure the
two RF mics had the right 9V batteries. It was five inputs on a Mackie, as
I recall. I think it is good for all of us who've learned 'the ropes' to
get involved in community service projects whenever possible.

And, there are a great many young people today who are trying to figure out
how to get into this business. (They can't all stumble across a garage band
practice while they are throwing newspapers, like I did!)

Chris Kathman: You are very lucky to still have your hearing after all those
shows! There were no custom-molded earplugs then. Do you ever use them now?

David Scheirman: Hearing protection is very important. Our ears are the
tools we use to make a living. Custom molded plugs didn't appear until the
early 1980's. I was lucky...I used to have a girlfriend who was an
audiologist when I was about 23 years old. She worked in the Speech &
Hearing clinic at a major university research center. I got my hearing
tested...learned what to watch out for...and still like to have regular
checkups.

As far as using earplugs now...I always carry custom molds, with both 10 and
20 dB pad inserts. And I carry cheap foam plugs to pass out to friends and
associates whenever I see somebody who's not 'protected'. As they say,
"Practice Safe Sound" !!!

I'd also suggest, for those of you who are sound system operators on a
regular basis, discipline yourself to take breaks to let your hearing system
recover from noise exposure. If you're "on the bus", out on tour...take
frequent breaks by going outside, get out in nature. Condition yourself to
listening to natural sounds far away, such as insects, birds and running
water. This helps your hearing system stay in balance.

Moderator: Was there a defined time when things went from "one box per
passband" to the "all in one box" like the Clair S-4 or KF-850?

David Scheirman: Hmmm...history of "boxes" is a fascinating subject.
Roughly, in my experience, you could say that column speakers and early line
arrays from Bozak, EV, JBL, University, Altec etc. "ruled" in the 1960's.
The 2-way stuff with separate horns muscled in during the late 60's.

Then, the Altec A7 "Voice of the Theater" put the LF and HF in the same
box...that was an innovation. Clair Bros. surely gets kudos for pulling the
multiway system into one box, circa 1973-75. It was first built to help make
sure that high profile projects (such as the co-headlining tour with Beach
Boys and Chicago) could present a new level of concert audio quality.

Things like the KF850, the Meyer MSL3, and the Turbosound TMS-3 all began to
proliferate in the 1980's. That certainly made life easier for those of us
who had to travel around and were constantly challenged, seeking some
consistency from company to company and city to city.

By 1995-98...there were at least a dozen "rider friendly" horn loaded
multiway modular systems being built/sold by reputable manufacturers.

Ken: What is different mixing the Pope from Tina?

David Scheirman: The difference between mixing Pope John Paul II and Tina
Turner is the length of the skirt :-)

Moderator: Whose is longer??

David Scheirman: Whose is longer? Not Tina's. But seriously, folks: Papal
projects require a tremendous amount of advance planning, and the gig is all
about site coverage calculations and multi-input combining and output mix
matrixing. A pop artist or major tour by somebody like Tina Turner, you are
focusing on getting large-venue sound to be "like the record".

The audience paid their tickets to hear their favorite artists singing their
favorite songs, not just whatever new reverb program or kick drum mic you
feel like trying out on them that day. (Dave Natale is the long-time mixer
for Tina, by the way, he does an incredible job. In fact, on his most recent
tour, he's been mixing both Joe Cocker and Tina on the same show.)

Chris Kathman: Have you ever known the trauma of a band ordering you to NOT
emulate the record, and the crowd getting upset? That can be hellish.

David Scheirman: Well, Chris, yes, that has happened to me. I won't relate
which artist or situation, but let's just say that particular band doesn't
sell many albums these days. And that production manager is working at a
small town hardware store, last I heard.

Chris Kathman: Justice!

David Scheirman: Justice, and an interesting point: if a band (or a
soundmixer) is not pleasing the crowd...nature will take its course.

Chris Kathman: I met Art Steele last night, he was saying that the A-7 was
developed in an airplane hangar and to this day it achieves better
intelligibility in that setting than any other speaker.

David Scheirman: I've not had the pleasure of meeting Art Steele. I have no
doubt that PA gear developed to get good full bandwidth intelligibility and
coverage in an airplane hangar would sound better in more concert-friendly
venues.

Van: What is the biggest change in Tour Sound since 1985?

David Scheirman: The biggest change since 1985? Well, probably a few things:

Change #1, the rapid growth of regional rental service providers and their
increasing ability to provide a quality crew, and rental system.

Change #2, the rapid growth of manufacturers trying to copy "the big boys"
in their sound reinforcement speaker system designs.

Change #3, the baby boomers growing up....kids who used to hitch-hike to
rock concerts now control City budgets and are on the board of directors of
performing arts centers. That means, they know what sound "is" and they want
to be sure their venue or program provides it.

So...more vendors + more rental system customers + more opportunities to
rent and install full bandwidth, concert quality systems means a growing
Industry. The whole world wants better sound, and more of it.

Tucci: How important is education to a person's resume now, as compared to
"back in the day?"

David Scheirman: Education, now that is an interesting topic. "Formal"
education is hard to get in ways that will benefit you "on the road". As a
young person, you have to know your goals and stick to them.

I would say that if you are in school...make sure you don't skip math class.
Understand basic physics. And get into the music program, as well. Playing
an instrument and learning the basics of ensemble performance, and
participating in music creation as a team player...this is invaluable
background for anyone considering Sound Reinforement as a career.

Tucci: Do you still see room in the marketplace for independent thinkers?
Guys who want to design their own speakers, rather than take advantage of
the huge R&D budgets spent by manufacturers such as yourself. With a big
enough checkbook, you can be in the business in minutes. This somehow
parallels the dribble of home brewed rap music I fear.

David Scheirman: The market will always have room for independent thinkers.
Look at Tom Danley, and his ServoDrive subwoofers. Those helped show folks
what "real" VLF (Very Low Frequency) performance was.

Look at Christian Heil...his evangelistic efforts on behalf of line array
technology have influenced the direction of loudspeaker system design. The
benefits of Line Array technology are now understood by a whole new
generation of audio folks.

“Home brewed rap music"...(and a big enough checkbook)...yes, anybody can do
anything. But when it comes to designing speaker systems, there are some
fundamental acoustical physics to consider. As has been said before, "there
is nothing new under the sun". Much of what we have...and will continue to
have...for speaker system technology was researched and described by
acoustical pioneers in the 1930's.

I would also hazard the opinion that some of the 'huge R&D budgets' such as
you describe (and such as many people imagine exist at major companies like
EV, JBL, Bose, etc.) are NOT always targeted at the unique needs of Concert
Sound and particularly the touring side of things.

That is what gives room for innovations...for independent thinkers.

Anyone who is bored, sitting on a tour bus watching a Spinal Tap video for
the zillionth time, can just as well be sketching out designs for "a better
mousetrap" on a pad of graph paper.

Remember, the key innovations (like Clair's S4 system, which has enjoyed a
reign of over 25 years for major-venue artist service) was, indeed, sketched
out just like that. Ron Borthwick, Bruce Jackson, Roy Clair...they had no
"huge R&D budget". Rather, they had customers, and they had a need for a
better solution.

Moderator: Some feel that JBL is more accepted in the many proprietary
designs they are used in than the company’s factory boxes. What are your
thoughts on this?

David Scheirman: JBL has enjoyed excellent acceptance at the high end of the
market. It was JBL components that Clair chose for those S4 boxes. It was
JBL components that A1 Audio and Concert Sound UK chose when they ordered
those first big systems of EAW KF850's. It was JBL components that were
loaded into the first large Turbo TMS3 system to hit North America for
touring work (on the Styx tour) in about 1983.

The reason for that typically has to do with both technical characteristics
like power compression (how well does a transducer 'hold together' at high
levels?)...and, sonic characteristics. (How well does a component translate
the electrical signal into acoustical energy...and how 'musical' is it when
that happens?)

JBL, as a company, did not really elect to participate in the competition
for horn-loaded systems throughout the 1980's. And, it has been fairly
recently that the company has begun to really focus on tour sound system
products for a broad market. I should also point out...this is probably the
first time in history that JBL has been run by "sound guys" (instead of
accountants or sales executives).

Ted Leamy has joined us recently (after 23 years at Electrotec). Mark
Engebretson is now Director of System Development. And our President,
Michael MacDonald, knew all about bus hair and the hazards of the road long
before taking his first 'office job' at Yamaha Corporation, to begin work on
better mixing consoles like the PM3000 and PM4000.

One thing I do notice, as I travel around and as I speak with many smaller
and regional rental sound customers...this is a very confusing marketplace
right now. How does a guy know whether sales claims are 'true' or not? If
you are not a trained engineer, how do you really know how to intepret
speaker system specifications, etc.?

Tucci: So when an old dog finally decides to stay around the dog house, I
can send you a resume?

David Scheirman: Hey...resumes always welcome! Old dogs are always needed
to teach those young pups how to lift their leg. :-)

And...young pups are needed to keep us old dogs from thinking we know it
all!

Weogo Reed: Since you're in the speaker business, what are the
advantages/compromises with subs that have passive radiators? I'm thinking
of the 35-70Hz range, fidelity being a priority.

David Scheirman: Passive radiators primarily have benefits in near field
listening situations. You will see that techonlogy as a mainstay in varied
designs for home entertainment use, and in some low powered recording
monitors. Portable systems cannot usually afford the extra space/weight of
such technologies.

As an example...while not a passive radiatior...a recent line array product
brought out by a respected vendor has extra woofers, rear-firing, to help
with lobing control. Each enclosure weighs about 356 lbs. (161 Kg). Stage
call, 8AM...backbraces on!

That being said, 35-70Hz is such an important part of the audio spectrum.
That's the "thump" in your kick drum. Any technical development that
improves fidelity in low bass systems, and that takes into account the
practical design aspects of portability, will be welcome in touring sound
reinforcement.

The Old Soundman: Please tell us, engineer-to-engineer, rather than as JBL
Man, what do you honestly like about the VerTec?

David Scheirman: Well, I haven't been at JBL long enough to have seen my
blood turn orange. But I will say, what I honestly like about the VERTEC
system is its high power to weight ratio...its exceptional fidelity...its
low distortion, and its well defined coverage pattern when combined in
arrays. I've been trying to find rigs like that my entire soundmixing
career, it makes the show a whole lot more fun when you don't have to
'worry' about the non-linearities in the speaker system. Focus on the mix.

Moderator: So....you’re our man on the inside? ;-)

David Scheirman: Your man on the inside...well, one of them certainly!

I was a soundmixer, a truck driver, a rental company tech, an event sound
designer and such long before I ever got involved in manufacturing speaker
systems. I did not 'abandon' my neutrality until about 1993, when I first
joined a networking technology Research & Development firm, working on
computer-controlled audio.

Ken: Why hasn't the industry been able to get a real network together?

David Scheirman: Getting a "network" together requires time, attention, and
a reason for coming into existence. For audio equipment vendors, that reason
must be profit and return on investment.

It may be a bitter pill to swallow...but our "Pro Audio Industry" is just
not large enough (in overall gross revenue) to support the inter-linked
technological developments required. Those developments include
software/firmware/hardware...and then there is the entire issue of
APPLICATION and SYSTEM INTEGRATION. The customers know more about that than
the manufacturers typically do.

Ken: What applications will the EVO technology have on the touring world?

David Scheirman: A quick thanks to Ken Berger here, for having the vision
that has brought you this Chat forum...and, that in one sense is creating a
"network" of a different sort, one based on people and experiences rather
than just bits and bytes and routers and hubs.

EVO technology, for those unfamiliar, includes BiDat (Bi Directional Digital
Audio Transfer) so that control/monitoring signals can be 'carried' on the
same XLR/shielded wire mic-cable hookups that get the audio signal to the
loudspeaker enclosure.

It also includes self-analyzing digital electronics, feedback suppression,
and DSP templates that let the system "learn" what the operator or setup
technician wants to achieve over time.

Regarding EVO's potential impact on the Touring World...we have some things
under development at JBL that may offer some very cool new system tools, not
just for large scale concert work but for the corporate A/V industrial
scene, the Broadway show environment, and any place else where a number of
enclosures must be linked on a 'network' to offer predictable performance,
remote control, etc.

Alan H: How has the advent of the DSP affected the speaker design process?
Where do you see the technology going (both in the digital processing AND in
speaker designs/apps)?

David Scheirman: Answer to that is in the hands of industries larger and
faster-moving than ours. Pro Audio must integrate the best of the newest
technical developments in the PC and networking industry.

To attempt to "go it alone", without taking advantage of all that happens
outside our industry, is a mistake, IMHO. That being said, I would say we
can look forward to self-identifying, self-powered loudspeakers that "know"
their place in the array, and set their DSP accordingly.

Also, perhaps, there is room for some good product development work on the
system front end, integrating 'tedious chores' (repeatable tasks during
setup), and "creative juice" (the real-time changes required for system
operation).

New algorithms that link interactive software templates with lookup tables,
and the "pre-sets" required to optimize a system (while taking info from
datastreams coming from analysis tools like Smaart)...watch for some neat
tricks along those lines.

Chris Kathman: What are your plans as far as shows you will personally mix
this year?

David Scheirman: My plans for shows that I will personally mix...those
things come up from time to time. With a fulltime "office job", it is hard
to commit to things on a calendar, but I'm always up for interesting
opportunities!

Tucci: This may be before your tenure, David, but why did JBL let Smaart
slip out of its fingers?

David Scheirman: Re: Smaart...we took a close look at the cost to continue
development and, to support it over time. Comparing that to the $$$ amount
being sought by those who wished to sell it, it was a straightforward
business decision. Rather than saying, "slip through the fingers", picture
it more as a "hand-off"...JBL passed the torch on.

Smaart is such an excellent tool, and it deserves a strong focus, a real
commitment to user feedback, and the new team of folks like Jamie Anderson
are doing a great job of that, I think.

Chris Engel: It sounds as though we are moving into an era of “point and
shoot” sound systems. Are these new systems going to be locked up where the
operator cannot change the settings of delays, crossovers, etc?

David Scheirman: "Point & Shoot" systems...well, Chris, do you want these
systems to be "locked up"? John Meyer really showed us all how you can have
certain benefits by having things like crossover settings, etc. "locked out"
from interaction by the system operator.

In many situations, the "lock out" that you suggest is a desirable thing. In
others, it is not. For instance...when I was mixing on a lot of Meyer
systems, I found that using the VX-1 (a precision broadband equalizer
marketed by Meyer) worked really well as a "Virtual Crossover"...this let
the system opeator at FOH 'set' his desired tonal characteristic, without
"messing with" the precision settings that the good folks at the Meyer
factory had researched.

In fact...I'll bet John and Helen would still be glad to sell VX-1's to you
Meyer system users who want a bit more control over the system from the mix
position. :-)

Harry: Could you give a bit of history of HLA, where it came from, what AA
has to do with it, and how it differes from their system?

David Scheirman: HLA (Horn Loaded Array) was developed primarily by Mick
Whelan (formerly of Electrotec and now at Crown)...Albert Leccese (Vice
President, Engineering)...and Bill Gelow (formerly of JBL, now at EV).

AA (Audio Analysts) required a custom, high powered, multiway hornloaded
system. The JBL R&D group needed a vehicle to field test some advanced,
radically-different components. Audio Analysts took their first AALTO
(3-way) system inventory in 1995....JBL introduced HLA (a 4-way,
commercially available system product) in 1996.

Harry: I have heard AA developed the space frame, is that true? What about
the horns themselves, who developed them?

David Scheirman: The Spaceframe, a tubular aluminum construct, was
developed by JBL R&D. JBL holds a Patent on the technology. As advised
previously, Audio Analysts was a customer with a specific need. The
Spaceframe was implemented on the firm's custom system as a viable solution
to the mechanical/rigging challenges.

And that brings us to the horns...the waveguides on the AALTO system are
proprietary to Audio Analysts. The waveguides on the JBL HLA are proprietary
to JBL. JBL often works 'behind the scenes' with major concert sound
companies. In many ways they are like our "racing teams".

JBL provides component transducers with some serious advantages, both
technical and sonic. The "racing team" firms provide valuable feedback by
field testing, etc.

Chris Kathman: When you are in a show situation and the locals have a little
bit to be desired, I have found that being Mr. Big Pants can be the wrong
way to go. In other words, haranguing them can be counter-productive. Have
you ever had to "gentle" your way through a dodgy situation?

David Scheirman: Yep...being "Mr. Big Pants"..."Mr. White Gloves"...just
doesn't cut it. I always have enjoyed working to train/instruct the type of
"locals" you suggest...when time permits.

When you are under the gun, though, with a production schedule and a
demanding concert artist or band...sometimes it's hard to maintain
diplomatic relations with an incompetent sound system vendor. You have to
roll up your sleeves, put on your hip boots, and wade in.

As a soundmixer, the results of the show are ultimately your responsibility.
Regardless of how you get there, sometimes.

Chris Kathman: SFX - the monster that ate up regional promoters ... will
sweetheart touring contracts result as well?

David Scheirman: SFX (now owned by Clear Channel Communications)...
http://www.sfx.com (?)...the company does represent some interesting
business positions.

"Sweetheart" touring contracts might result for some of the major vendors, I
suppose, once the various promoters and venues begin to get "bundled"
together, and work on collaborative tour packages. The goal in those
situations is to make it easier for a particular artist to book a nationwide
tour...and then, for the venues to get a consistent package without having
so many cost variables.

We all are interested, I think, to see how this type of consolidation turns
out. It will certainly affect smaller regional companies, and the major ones
as well. It is hard to predict who the "winner" is in the scenario you
suggest - the artist? the venue? the sound company?

Probably not the rental sound company, promoters are ALWAYS trying to cut
the cost they pay for sound, regardless of whether they are a conglomerate
or not! :-)

Bob Rice DDS: We have heard rumors of a Clair/SFX thing, nothing solid
yet.

David Scheirman: Hey Bob, nice to see you join us! I learned years ago,
that 'rumors' are often just that... how's everything in Fiberglass horn
land? (for those who don't know, Bob and his company make some of the best,
most affordable horns going...)

Tucci: I have a little experience with the Vertec. What's the deal with
support at the website? Where can I get a copy of the Vertec array
calculator spreadsheet?

David Scheirman: The VT Line Array Calculator is distributed through JBL's
sales channel and is provided directly to system owners.

Re: support at the JBL website...in progress on a daily basis, some good new
tools for system owners will be online...as they always say regarding
software configuration...stay tuned!

chat.boy: This concludes this evening’s chat with David Scheirman.

Chris Kathman: Our moderator was the world-famous Another Dave!

Moderator: It's a small, small world. Thank You David, and David.

Chris Kathman: Thanks for chatting with us, David.

David Scheirman: Thanks Chris, it was a pleasure.

Moderator: This ends our series of chats by guys named Dave.

Chris Kathman: Our next chat is with the Old Soundman on the 21st of this
month, two weeks from today. Buenas noches.